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Phils White Gloves 12:38 Thu Nov 27
Immigration
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''No ifs, not buts''......
David Cameron’s pledge to cut net migration to Britain lies in tatters today as new figures show the figure topped 260,000 in the last year, higher than when he became Prime Minister.
The Tories repeatedly promised to reduce net migration to the ‘tens of thousands’ but it has been demolished by a record 228,000 people from the rest of the European Union moving to in just 12 months.
So he failed, but was he ever going to manage it given the constraints of the EU.
Is it really AS BAD as the media would have us think?
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Replies - Newest Posts First ( Show In Chronological Order)
mentor
10:56 Sun Nov 30
Re: Immigration
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Holidays are great. I would encourage everyone to try it.
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Hammer and Pickle
10:25 Sun Nov 30
Re: Immigration
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Anyone should be making sure Rupert Murdoch does not have the opportunity to write so much UK government policy.
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SurfaceAgentX2Zero
10:06 Sun Nov 30
Re: Immigration
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Everyone should be as wise and entertaining as you.
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JGW1
10:02 Sun Nov 30
Re: Immigration
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Christ on a bike .... just read the first page of posts. Jeez you two are deluded AND crushingly dull
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SurfaceAgentX2Zero
10:00 Sun Nov 30
Re: Immigration
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After8 9:42 Sun Nov 30
Where have I ever suggested that UKIP are perfect?
Oh! I didn't. More Tory lies.
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JGW1
10:00 Sun Nov 30
Re: Immigration
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What a fucking plum "all immigration has to stop..... boohoo"
Followed closely after by complaints about lack of cleaners and people to serve you dinner or in hotels as the economy grinds to a halt. Mug!
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ManorParkHammer
9:58 Sun Nov 30
Re: Immigration
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You don't go far enough mentor.
Ban holidays as well.
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mentor
9:51 Sun Nov 30
Re: Immigration
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The EU is a red herring and isn't the real problem. 140000 people came here from outside the EU last year. ALL immigration has to stop.
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SurfaceAgentX2Zero
9:50 Sun Nov 30
Re: Immigration
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After8 9:42 Sun Nov 30
If you want to get into a slightly misleading election materials pissing contest, I'm very happy to go and get stuff from the Conservative, Lavour and Lib Dems.
I'll start with Cameron's 'no ifs, no buts,' pledge to cut immigration to the tens of thousands by 2015.
It's a good game.
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SurfaceAgentX2Zero
9:45 Sun Nov 30
Re: Immigration
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After8
On the subject of misinformation, why are the Tories pretending that they are going to have meaningful negotiations with the EU when they have already, before negotiations have begun and on the orders of the German chancellor, conceded their main negotiating position?
And why did Cameron on Thursday refuse to define any circumstances whatsoever under which he would oppose continued membership of the EU
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After8
9:42 Sun Nov 30
Re: Immigration
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So at the moment benefits are being cut which means people are losing some of their monies.
Ukip are campaigning against that by your very statement that protect is to defend from loss.
Lister surface you're even more politically tribal than I am. You honestly think ukip can never do anything wrong. It quite amusing to see.
I feel sorry for you because in order to get more votes ukip are going leftwards and that it is going to sit uneasily with you and lead you to even more desperate ways.
I've been critical about my party for many things.
Why can't you just this once agree that ukip are misleading people by campaigning to " protect your benefits"
And don't go on an anti Tory rant.
Just sit there for once and admit that ukip aren't perfect.
I bet you won't though.
Have a good evening.
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SurfaceAgentX2Zero
9:35 Sun Nov 30
Re: Immigration
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Nice try.
My definition of protect is' to defend from loss'
There is no inference totality in the word. You have added it for your own purpose.
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After8
9:29 Sun Nov 30
Re: Immigration
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A few weeks ago surface you denied that ukip had ever had this message.
Here's what protect means
pro·tect (pr-tkt)
tr.v. pro·tect·ed, pro·tect·ing, pro·tects
1. To keep from being damaged, attacked, stolen, or injured; guard. See Synonyms at defend.
2. To help (domestic industry) with tariffs or quotas on imported goods.
3. To assure payment of (drafts or notes, for example) by setting aside funds.
4. Sports To attempt to hold (a lead) by playing careful defense and avoiding risky plays.
5. Baseball
a. To swing at a pitch near (home plate) in order to avoid being called out on strikes.
b. To swing at a pitch so as to give (a base runner) a better chance of advancing.
[Middle English protecten, from Latin prtegere, prtct- : pr-, in front; see pro-1 + tegere, to cover; see (s)teg- in Indo-European roots.]
pro·tecting·ly adv.
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2009. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
protect (prəˈtɛkt)
vb (tr)
1. to defend from trouble, harm, attack, etc
2. (Economics) economics to assist (domestic industries) by the imposition of protective tariffs on imports
3. (Commerce) commerce to provide funds in advance to guarantee payment of (a note, draft, etc)
[C16: from Latin prōtegere to cover before, from pro-1 + tegere to cover]
Collins English Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged © HarperCollins Publishers 1991, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2003
pro•tect (prəˈtɛkt)
v.t.
1. to defend or guard from attack, invasion, loss, insult, etc.; cover; shield.
2. to guard (an industry) from foreign competition by imposing import duties.
v.i.
3. to provide, or be capable of providing, protection.
[1520–30; < Latin prōtēctus, past participle of prōtegere to shield, cover, protect]
Random House Kernerman Webster's College Dictionary, © 2010 K Dictionaries Ltd. Copyright 2005, 1997, 1991 by Random House, Inc. All rights reserved.
prevent – protect
It's pretty simple. Protect means maintaining the current level of benefits and the current system.
Protect doesn't mean reform.
It doesn't mean cuts.
It's means the status quo.
Ukip are campaigning for the protection of benefits.
Pure and simple.
I know that doesn't sit well with you. Unfortunately for you as ukip grows and picks up ex labour voters it is going to be pulled in two directions.
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After8
9:25 Sun Nov 30
Re: Immigration
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Brentford
None of your points should be dismissed. The government is actually doing some of what you suggest already and only an idiot would think that's enough and there isn't more to be done.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/249251/Overview_Immigration_Bill_Factsheet.pdf
The below clearly has quotes from pro immigrant pressure groups bitching about the government restriction NHS services to immigrants.
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-24469584
The simple fact is immigration is too high in the uk right now. It's happening because of a weak eurozone, because we are giving tax credits to foreign workers to top up their salaries and because we are letting people come here that might never work.
40% of immigrants come here with no firm job. If we are able to get rid of them then that should mean a healthy reduction in the numbers coming. Likewise of we take away tax credits and other welfare payments from immigrants there's less reason for them to come. At the moment the government is subsiding immigrants take home pay.
Both I feel will be of a great value to us, they will save money which is needed plus restore a sense of fairness.
On the point about the deficit and public services, well we need more people in work and spending money so that we have greater tax revenues which can then be used to reduce the deficit and continued investment in our public services.
Reducing immigration will not automatically lead to a reduced deficit without British people stepping up and doing the jobs the immigrants are.
We need to get more people off welfare and into work then we wouldn't have so many immigrants. We'd also have more money spent in this country as we wouldn't have immigrants sending money back to their countries and families.
We also have to have long term reform of public services and our overall welfare and pension systems.
We have a deficit of 100 billion a year and a national debt over 1 trillion. It is not simply not sustainable .
The problem is whenever the government cuts something there's a pressure group protesting about the evil vicious Tories.
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SurfaceAgentX2Zero
9:18 Sun Nov 30
Re: Immigration
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After8 9:13 Sun Nov 30
I'm sorry, but you'll have to explain to me how 'protect your benefits' translates to 'maintains all your benefits at their current level' which is what you seem to imply.
Clearly UKIP believe that the only way to preserve any benefits system at all is to leave the EU and control immigration. Nothing to see there.
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After8
9:13 Sun Nov 30
Re: Immigration
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Surface
I think we are finding some common ground. Of course the welfare system needs to have further reforms and does our education system in order to get British people off a lifetime of benefits and into work.
It's perfectly simple if we got more British people in to work we wouldn't need so many immigrants to do the jobs British people won't do.
Of course my party is committed to welfare reforms.
Unfortunately for you ukip campaigned recently on protecting everyone's benefits.
http://order-order.com/2014/02/12/white-dee-might-vote-ukippartys-protect-your-benefits-message-getting-through/
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SurfaceAgentX2Zero
4:50 Sun Nov 30
Re: Immigration
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Oh, I see, you got it straight away but twice decided to play dumb.
Side-splitting stuff.
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13 Brentford Rd
4:30 Sun Nov 30
Re: Immigration
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I'm not slow today, It just wasn't funny or remotely original mate
;-)
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